I undertook a thorough warm-up, taking my time to ensure that I went through all of the motions. Basically every bit of me needed to be absolutely ready for what I was about to throw at it. Realistically being my 2nd session back, I was asking a lot!
Results:
Max Campus:
LH - 1-4-7
RH - 1-4-7
Smallest hold, hung one arm?
LH - Moon board smallest crimp
RH - Moon board smallest crimp
Length of hang on campus rung (standard size)
3 fingers open:
LH - 4s (poor)
RH - 2s (poor)
2 fingers open:
LH - Didn't bother
RH - Didn't bother
How many 1-armers?
LH - 5
RH - 2
How many pullups on a standard campus rung?
17
How many pullups on jugs (not a bar!)?
22
How long can you hold a front lever for:
5 sec
(One armers on a standard campus rung?
LH - 2
RH - 1)
What is the max amount of weight you can hang on yourself and still do a pullup on a standard campus rung?
~50kg (they didn't have plates so I had to use a Natalie instead)
A lot of this surprised me, I know I felt strong the other night but this shows that i'm not too far off where I was in terms of absolute strength. Campussing I've never really achieved more than 1-4-7, one armers i've done a few more but the powerpull on a rung amazed me. Nat's arms interfered with my shoulders and stopped me getting the rung fully locked below my chest which was a shame. It's safe to say that there weren't enough plates kicking about and asking every body their weight until I found a suitable load wasn't really a good idea. Scouse offered.
I think its safe to say that the test highlights the fact that my crimp strength is severely imbalanced compared to openhanding, and, that my core doesn't really fall into line with the rest of my body. This confirms what I've thought for a while now, I have tried to address a few of these issues before but injury has always prevented a methodic approach.
So where do I take it from now? I'm not exactly sure and i'm hoping that the readership of this blog may comment and let me know their thoughts (so I can ignore them, obviously).
Issues to be addressed:
Open hand strength - beastmaker training article looks good but what do people think, repeaters? weighted hangs?
Core - Lots of L-sits, levers etc. I enjoyed rings before so If I shift the focus towards levers rather than an all round workout that should be good?
Flexibility - i'm going to hassle Ned and see if I can get whatever he takes for this.
(Footwork and technique - an on going battle but climbing with Nat on easier grit allows me to really focus on that without getting disheartened, a long process but very worthwhile).
The results I've posted are for a very specific strength assessment tailored towards myself by a person who has a good idea of what I can and can't do. It's not gospel but can probably be altered to different levels if necessary. However, it's likely that deep down you know what your weak at. Work them and Stop Strong.
20 comments:
well I think thats well strong! is that Keiths strength test? ye gads - I certainly couldnt do many of the things on there.
I think weighted repeaters and different fingers are the way to go.
.....and doing lots of climbing for the footwork and technique bit.
;-)
I certainly couldn't do any of the things on there.
yes it is Dob, feeling a little more solid I hope?
Yeah yeah jasper, i'm working on it. Perfecting problems such as Poc :)
paul, you fuc***** lunatic!!!
with those stats, just go out and crush!!!
I would love to Nibs however i'm limited by my shortcomings. They restrict me to trying problems of a certain type and I'd really like to expand that, being a steep crimping fiend is one thing but if you fail to hold onto the easy sloping top etc. you're f*cked.
I do however intend to try and CRUSH as much as possible before christmas and then in Font. What could be better than a decent tick on christmas day?
a morning shag and then an 8B+ in the afternoon?
Repeaters are great for conditioning before attacking so hard hangs.
I've always been weak on the old pinch, but my board has loads of them so I'm making good gains!
What we noticed in the County is that we always favour full handed holds and only perform well up to the point of dragging on 3. I think the gains from splitting up fingers front 2, middle 2, back 2 and then hitting the monos is the way forward. Think of all that extra crush strength from your pinky!
Anyway beast those are pretty good stats!
Paul,
Would be keen to see videos of the tests. Not because I'm trying to stalk you, but in order to see the methods you're adopting and how you do them (such as what holds you're using, how you hold them, whether you half crimp or completely open hand etc). I saw a few videos of Nibs training a year or two ago which was helpful to understand how he trained.
I think a standard strength analysis (such as what you're doing) would be very beneficial, allowing training geeks such as myself, to benchmark their physical (and non movement / balance) abilities.
Kev
I can offer no advice on this sort of highly specific training. All I can offer is general broader comments on your approach. It’s a predictable rant I’m afraid, Bonjoy banging on the same old drum again. I hope you don’t mind me talking straight. This will probably end up sounding over critical, but you know I’m opinionated on the subject and I’ll rant at anyone, so don’t take offence.
With those stats I think I’m speaking for the majority of readers in saying your obvious weakness is in outdoor application. You appear to be a tiny bit trapped in the Matt Smythe paradigm. If your goal is primarily to be part of a strength elite, then please ignore the following. By all means go all out for strength for its own sake, if that is the goal in itself. The assumption of my rant is that all the training is aimed at unleashing impressive deeds upon the crags and boulders of world. As an aside, I think a breakdown of your ultimate goals and motivations might be an interesting blog post and give some context to the training diary type entries.
If you accept there is an imbalance the only way to redress it is to rearrange your priories. You aren’t ever going to become a brilliant all-rounder by isolating every element of all-round ability, working it separately and then hoping it will coalesce all by itself. From an outside perspective this appears to be your model. Who are you basing this model for success upon, who has ever successfully become a brilliant outdoor climber by going down this road? That’s not a rhetorical question, I am genuinely interested to know. From what I can see around me all the best climbers train hard AND put a lot of time in on the rock. Over emphasis on training or climbing alone clearly limits the chances of become a brilliant climber. The more imbalanced you are in either direction, the more you will benefit from doing a bit more of the other. Your training model has already got you very strong, but you won’t progress to becoming something more than that unless you spend concerted periods of time (months, perhaps whole years) where the priority is diversity and volume of outdoor climbing.
You say you consider yourself poor at some aspects of climbing. Surely the starting block for improvement in these is to put grades aside and choose some problems you feel work these weaknesses and are doable with some effort and keep trying them until you succeed. Only when you become competent at a style do you need to start breaking it down and looking for the minutia in order to squeeze out the extra percentage.
I think it’s a practical impossibility to isolate exactly which muscles are required to do X, Y or Z moves. The bio-dynamics (or whatever they are called) are just too complex. You will always miss something. Why try to replicate something when you can easily use the original item. Only seek to replicate when use of the original ceases to be the most efficient way to improve. Have you reached this point on the things you profess to be poor at?
Obviously you’ve had heaps of injury set backs, but if you where to write down the most inspiring routes and boulder problems you’ve done this year, discounting repeats of stuff you’ve already done, what does it amount to? I’m only guessing at what might be on the list, but I suspect you could have doubled it with five or ten more days on the crag. Success breeds motivation, which breeds more success.
Why not do what Dobbin did and get someone else to write you a ticklist. You will end up improving in areas you might otherwise avoid and doing some very enjoyable climbing. Don’t dismiss the importance of enjoyment. If you don’t find success on a challenging climb enjoyable you’re in the wrong sport. If grades get in the way of this (some people don’t like failing on low grade problems) then this mindset is a major weakness you need to work on as it will always hold you back.
Just to be clear. I am not saying do as I do. What holds back my climbing is an imbalance the other way ie I lack motivation to train properly. I’m hammering on about one side of the coin, not because I think this is the be-all and end-all, but because this seems to be your missing link. It’s all about balance. I need to train more, you need to climb more. I challenge you to find anyone who disagrees with me.
PS I'm only work three days a week now, so giz a text if you are looking for someone to go out with, I might be around to rant at you in person.
PPS Have brilliant time in font
Kev - very sorry but I don't have any videos of specific training (i've never really done anything very specific before believe it or not).
I'm not intending on repeating that test in a hurry as it seems to have tired me out over the last few days. I guess when/if I repeat it I could but TBH I'd feel like a little bit of a twat, especially at the works.
For the tests i've posted I think the grip types and hold sizes were all listed.
Jon - My current predicament is this; I picked my PhD foolishly thinking that it would allow me to have a very flexible lifestyle. Currently I take lectures on a monday from 1-5 and participate in modules on thurs and fri from 1 -5. The only days my supervisor currently is able to see me is tues and wed. Fitting in the amount of work that seems to be building around that schedule is increasingly difficult and unfortunately this eats into my free time more than I would like, that includes evenings weekends and over the last month or so a couple of full nights without sleep.
I can't argue with the fact that more time on the rock would be a million times more beneficial for me than spending my evenings in a dark room hanging off small edges however its worth noting that this week alone I ended up out climbing with Nat (at the weekend) and again I quested off on a night session on friday night with Ned etc. Sat I was keen to go to rubicon with Dobbin but felt like sh*t so passed on that one. The upshot of this is that I'm trying to get out as much as possible when I can and this week is evidence of that fact.
Now we get back to the strength test; it was done with some morbid curiosity of seeing what barely climbing since Feb and just chucking weights around can actually achieve whilst also highlighting current weaknesses. As I explained earlier, its not physically possible for me to spend every session I'd be training, outside (if it was I'd be called Dave Graham, or Adam Lincoln, one of the two) and therefore I'd prefer to spend this time focusing in on things that are weaknesses rather than adding more power to my repertoire and ending up even further out of whack.
Does that not seem sensible? Please feel free to write a list of problems to footwork glory and I'll endeavor to apply myself to these each time that I'm out (as long as theres something easy for the lady nearby). I actually surprised myself the other night by feeling quite light and good on my feet. I don't have a fear of failure especially around those who know me, I do have a short fuse when people tell me I should be getting up stuff because of X, Y, Z when they're lacking the background knowledge to my current state.
As for my long term goals, I'll gladly discuss them in person or with anyone who cares to listen but I've just become aware of how wide spread the readership of this blog actually is.
My ticks for this year? well thats a very short list indeed, something to do with not really being interested I suppose. Goals however? I managed a fair few of those.
Anyway I'm hungry.
I eagerly await your response and don't worry I don't get offended by what people blog about or comment, if I did it might be silly to bother posting!
If you are getting out as much as time allows without neglecting the training then most of what I’m saying is redundant.
Humour me while I badger you a bit more. Why do you think you weren’t interested this summer? What are you psyched for now that you weren’t then? What are your current climbing goals which are the motivation behind the training?
Hmmm its hard to say or pin point exactly, one of the reasons was quite simple; it hurt. My hand hurt, my chest hurt and more importantly my back hurt like hell when I hit the deck. I was also fed up of trying so hard and then being injured beyond my control, not down to something stupid but in the latest case someone else being an utter twat.
The other thing was my head was in the wrong place, when I was up high, even in relatively safe situations I got far too nervous. I didn't like performing sub-par due to basically being a pussy (whether or not I have reason to). That was from the previous year and despite trying to ignore it, it wasn't going away. Again fed up. All of this led to a general lack of enthusiasm so instead of becoming really fed up I got psyched for something completely different to take my mind of it all.
My re-motivation is mainly down to the enthusiasm of one or two people in particular, they seemed psyched out of their minds to get me climbing again and some of that has rubbed off on me. We've booked Font because we have two weeks worth of hols that we can't use up anywhere else. I absolutely love climbing there and its hard not to get psyched for that, especially after Keiths video. Again I thought that re-balancing myself might help me to be more rounded out there rather seeking out specific 'Paul' problems?
For a long time now I've also wanted to go and try a number of routes in the Frankenjura but due to injury its never quite materialized. I don't want to go there and struggle to pull on pockets so again it needs my attention.
I have a feeling you have some other theory as to why I might be re-psyched? If so, please post it up.
On the getting out front, I've realized that over the last 5 years I've been drawn towards training for trainings sake. I came to Sheffield with goals which I achieved quickly (1st winter) and then I disappeared onto boards up until recently and it is something I truly regret. Just the other night I was discussing this with Ned, wishing that I'd hit the crag more and THEN got into strength training as it seems so hard to retro learn technique. Currently I'm trying to address this by getting out as much as I can (which is becoming easier as Natalie can now tag along) but I am limited. This wed I have invites to go out but if I do I have to accept that my weekend might not happen.
Those seem totally sound reasons not to be psyched I’d say. I didn’t really have a theory on the change of motivation, I was just interested.
Actually I suppose my concern was that you might fall into the trap of finding it easier to get motivated to train than to climb, ergo the Matt Smythe paradigm.
I don’t see any need to regret how you approached climbing in the past. So long as any imbalance between strength and application doesn’t create psychological barriers to future progress then you are in a brilliant position to improve from. When you say “I didn't like performing sub-par due to basically being a pussy” you either don’t like the way it feels or you don’t like the way it looks to others (or both), either way your perception of how you should perform is hindering your motivation and hence creating negative feedback onto how you do perform. That’s the kind of barrier I mean. I fear that you might be prone to avoiding getting out of you comfort zone. You must admit that you have a tendency to go to mostly the same few crags and often even get on routes you’ve already done at these crags. Whatever the reason for this are, it can’t be good for expanding your technical repertoire. Training is about resistance and that’s as true for the mental side of climbing as it is for the physical.
I don’t doubt you fully understand my point, so I’ll stop trying to teach you to suck eggs. I mostly wrote a huge spiel yesterday because I was bored at work. Hope it wasn’t too much of an unwelcome haranguing. I often regret being such a vocal know-it-all very quickly after posting unsolicited advice to all and sundry.
Don't be silly, if I wasn't open to comments you'd find they'd be locked down!
It wasn't that I didn't like failing in front of people, I just hated that I couldn't apply myself in the same way as before due to head games, something I've rarely suffered from before. Previously in climbing I'd be aware that I was in a dangerous position and it wouldnt bother me at all, now I KNOW what it feels like to f*ck up in that kind of position and don't want that again as the problems caused by that injury are further reaching than just the initial pain. This could create a mental barrier for the future however after having a while off and returning to climbing I'm determined not to let it.
This year I must admit, I mainly stayed within my comfort zone because I didn't feel any strong pull towards doing anything else.
Previously though, I'd dispute that fact. I have spent a larger amount of time at Rubicon and the Cornice than anywhere else over the last few years I suppose but is that not true for even you this summer? You end up climbing where you want to climb. I can't really see where else I would have gone to get out of my comfort zone as these two crags are completely different climbing are they not?
There's been no need for me to go anywhere else as I've had so many things to go at that I know I'd like to invest time into. If we ignore the winter season and look at summer, where should I have been instead? Two Tier? on the Spider perhaps? By that time this summer my psych had all but evaporated. The Spider does look good but its not going anywhere.
I can see how you could see me only being re-psyched to train, even more so if the school had just been re-built, but it hasn't and TBH I'm struggling to work out where the hell I can spend my time. It's safe to say that at one point in time I wanted to tick Stuey 5 and Snot however it was in the same way as this summer I wanted to deadlift 100kg, it's just a milestone in strength. My main psych lies in lines and boulder problems that I still want to do and I'm going to do all that I can to get up these.
The last few posts have been a realisation that one sided strength will no longer get me where I want, I'm trying to invest my time wisely and that does include as much out time as possible. Anyone reading this, if you're heading out then drop me a text.
Fear of pain and injury is fairly rational I guess after your litany of disasters. I can see how this might be a tough nut to crack. But I’m not going to let you off on the crag diversity ;)
“I can't really see where else I would have gone to get out of my comfort zone as these two crags are completely different climbing are they not?” They’re both short peak limestone venues in Water-Cum-Jolly. Still well within the short sport route box, what about Raven Tor or Malham? There’s lots of good stuff dotted around at places like LTQ, Two Tier, Stoney, High Tor, Beeston, all in the peak, plus big name places elsewhere like Gordale and Pen Trywn. That’s just sticking to sport venues on lime, what about bouldering, safe hard trad, other rock types? When it comes to avoiding comforts zones the more variety and unfamiliarity the better.
Admittedly I went to Rubicon a fair bit this summer, mostly because it was the last place in the peak with starred (dry) sport routes left for me to try. I also went sport climbing to LPQ, Turkey Dip, Malham, Kilnsey, Cheedale, tradding down Dovedale, on High Tor, Willersley, the Churnet, bouldering on Bleaklow, Ramshaw, Squirrel Buttress, new routing in the Amber Valley, I could go on…. If I’d only been to Rubicon my psych would have withered and died months ago.
“There's been no need for me to go anywhere else as I've had so many things to go at that I know I'd like to invest time into.” My point is, I think there’s a case that you’d benefit, technically and motivationally from broader horizons. Even within the narrow world of peak sport climbing I reckon you’d get more out of doing a route of any given grade at Raven Tor rather than the Cornice. According to 8a.nu, the only route you’ve done there is The Toilet!!
I’m going to Eastwood on a new route mission on Thurs or Fri, if you fancy something out of the ordinary.
I'd love to Jon but I have a CFD module both afternoons which is a real pain in the ass.
I get where you're coming from with the crag diversity but I think you're talking from a limited background knowledge of my climbing.
I lived near Darlington for years whilst climbing, this led to a very diverse introduction to climbing from bouldering at goldsborough carr, missioning it up to the county for trad as well as bouldering, having weekend missions with Mawson's dad down to tick as many Allen and Bancroft routes in the peak as possible as well as regular trips to yorkshire, tradding and bouldering. Lakes tradding with a younger Ricky Bell after meeting on some BMC sponsered font thing and in the latter years much time spent at Kilnsey and Malham. I haven't climbed much on the orme but I HAVE climbed there. Throw in yearly trips down to swanage to DWS and a load of euro trips and thats a very brief background.
I moved to Sheffield for the climbing as well as uni and hadn't really figured out if i'd end up staying or not. Now that I am a full time resident, yes, I should start exploring more once again but its far from madness to take advantage of whats on your doorstep. After all it would be crazy to now spend each weekend blasting up to the county would you not agree? I have also visited a fair few of the peak venues that you've listed. LTQ I'm afraid to say didn't inspire me, yes your route is good but the setting isn't. Ruby fruit is as morpho as hell and at the time the boltest didn't have bolts. I've also spent days at high tor, I could go on but its all a little pointless. I'd love to visit some of these places more often, especially the tradding ones but my skills are a little rusty and that holds me back, an understanding person to climb with is always helpful. So if you feel like being patient then please see if i'm free when you are!
I'd also like to add that I've done more than 1 route at the tor, I lost interest in 8a.nu after getting email hassle from the owners about my school room ticks telling me I wasn't taking their ranking seriously!
I know your background is more diverse. I wasn’t suggesting that you haven’t been to enough crags per se, more that in recent years you haven’t seemed to. A day trying the High Tor Girdle is a fine epic, but not a very good sample of the best the crag has to offer. So you didn’t like LTQ (it’s a lot different now than it was when you went), that’s no big deal, but what about Malham and the Tor?
Your assuming thats the only day I've had on high tor which is incorrect I'm afraid.
As I said previously, Malham isn't exactly on the doorstep and until recently I'd reckon Ive climbed more routes at malham than I had at Rubicon!
Yes its time to start going further afield but the reason for not doing so recently is far from the suggestion that its to avoid leaving my comfort zone and I tried to convey the reasoning behind it in the last comment.
I’m pissing you off, I’ll stop. So you’re a dark horse with a whole raft of undisclosed Malham, Raven Tor, High Tor etc classics will hidden under your belt. Yes, I’m guilty of assuming that, for say Malham, the couple of warm ups and one scrappy 7c listed on your scorecard going back to ‘02 were all the routes you’d done there. If that’d been so you’d have to agree that you’d missed out on ALL the good routes at Britain’s best sport crag, in which case my point had some merit I think. Sorry Paul. Genuinely I was motivated by a wish to see you motivated, having fun and bagging the classics you are well capable of.
I think everyone reading this should be well aware that last night I confronted Bonjoy at the climbing works thumped him and then proceeded to beat him to a pulp.
I wasn't getting pissed off, just short of time to reply. A whole raft more ascents? maybe not. I certainly haven't exhausted these crags especially as my average grade has raised a bit.
Please! everybody, drag me out whenever possible.
In fact, whats everyone doing this weekend? staying local or going further afield?
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